Online
Wisconsin, USA

A couple years ago, I left a comment on someone's track, and they explained a rhythmic technique to me.  I unfortunately cannot find where I saved this information!  Maybe someone can read my vague description and help me out?


I THINK it was something about moving a piece from 3/4 to 4/4 in a rather seamless way.  Something about putting an accent on one rhythm so it would change over "in time"


That's all I got - thanks in advance smile

Offline
Melbourne, Australia

I can't help with the comment search, but I can possibly answer questions you may have about that rough area, if helpful?

Online
Wisconsin, USA
fc wrote:

I can't help with the comment search, but I can possibly answer questions you may have about that rough area, if helpful?

Thank you!

I think it is something like a Hemiola (https://douglasniedt.com/hemiola.html)

But it was about 3/4 into 4/4

Offline
Melbourne, Australia

It depends on what you want to do in your transition. 3/4 and 4/4 are not very different from one another, unlike 6/8 and 4/4 or 6/8 and 3/4. A transition from 3/4 to 4/4 should work reasonably seamlessly without any fancy devices, as you're kind of just adding or subtracting a beat. But if you wanted to make the transition a little more fluid, you can superimpose one on the other for a short period before the change.

For the following, S = strong, W = weak (referring to the beat strength. SS will mean secondary-strong.

In 3/4, your pulse pattern is: S W W | S W W | S W W | etc. (counting ONE two three | ONE two three)

In 4/4 your pulse pattern is: S W SS W |S W SS W | S W SS W| etc. (counting ONE two THREE four | ONE two THREE four).

Ok so for a 3/4 you might have a pulse pattern: S W W | S W W | etc. and you might want to move it into 4/4, so you would introduce the 4/4 pulse pattern against the 3/4 pulse pattern, say, in one instrument.

I1 3/4|| S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | 4/4 S W SS W | S W SS W | etc.

I2 3/4|| S W W | S W W | S W W | S W SS | W S W | SS W S | 4/4 S W SS W | S W SS W| etc.

In that example, instrument 2 introduces the "polymetre" of 4/4 against 3/4 facilitating a slightly smoother move into 4/4.

Notice that in the final bar before the 4/4 change there will be a "double accent" where the final strong pulse of the 3/4 has a new downbeat in 4/4. To get around this you simply disregard that beat structure a bit (I.e SS W W | 4/4 S W SS W) or make the transition long enough to have the full length of 3:4 (12 beats).

There are other ways to do this, but that is one of the easier ones. Is that what you are after?

Online
Wisconsin, USA
fc wrote:

It depends on what you want to do in your transition. 3/4 and 4/4 are not very different from one another, unlike 6/8 and 4/4 or 6/8 and 3/4. A transition from 3/4 to 4/4 should work reasonably seamlessly without any fancy devices, as you're kind of just adding or subtracting a beat. But if you wanted to make the transition a little more fluid, you can superimpose one on the other for a short period before the change.

For the following, S = strong, W = weak (referring to the beat strength. SS will mean secondary-strong.

In 3/4, your pulse pattern is: S W W | S W W | S W W | etc. (counting ONE two three | ONE two three)

In 4/4 your pulse pattern is: S W SS W |S W SS W | S W SS W| etc. (counting ONE two THREE four | ONE two THREE four).

Ok so for a 3/4 you might have a pulse pattern: S W W | S W W | etc. and you might want to move it into 4/4, so you would introduce the 4/4 pulse pattern against the 3/4 pulse pattern, say, in one instrument.

I1 3/4|| S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | 4/4 S W SS W | S W SS W | etc.

I2 3/4|| S W W | S W W | S W W | S W SS | W S W | SS W S | 4/4 S W SS W | S W SS W| etc.

In that example, instrument 2 introduces the "polymetre" of 4/4 against 3/4 facilitating a slightly smoother move into 4/4.

Notice that in the final bar before the 4/4 change there will be a "double accent" where the final strong pulse of the 3/4 has a new downbeat in 4/4. To get around this you simply disregard that beat structure a bit (I.e SS W W | 4/4 S W SS W) or make the transition long enough to have the full length of 3:4 (12 beats).

There are other ways to do this, but that is one of the easier ones. Is that what you are after?

Thank you for this!  I got an update - is the term I'm looking for "metric modulation" ?

Offline
Melbourne, Australia
orangedrink wrote:
fc wrote:

It depends on what you want to do in your transition. 3/4 and 4/4 are not very different from one another, unlike 6/8 and 4/4 or 6/8 and 3/4. A transition from 3/4 to 4/4 should work reasonably seamlessly without any fancy devices, as you're kind of just adding or subtracting a beat. But if you wanted to make the transition a little more fluid, you can superimpose one on the other for a short period before the change.

For the following, S = strong, W = weak (referring to the beat strength. SS will mean secondary-strong.

In 3/4, your pulse pattern is: S W W | S W W | S W W | etc. (counting ONE two three | ONE two three)

In 4/4 your pulse pattern is: S W SS W |S W SS W | S W SS W| etc. (counting ONE two THREE four | ONE two THREE four).

Ok so for a 3/4 you might have a pulse pattern: S W W | S W W | etc. and you might want to move it into 4/4, so you would introduce the 4/4 pulse pattern against the 3/4 pulse pattern, say, in one instrument.

I1 3/4|| S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | S W W | 4/4 S W SS W | S W SS W | etc.

I2 3/4|| S W W | S W W | S W W | S W SS | W S W | SS W S | 4/4 S W SS W | S W SS W| etc.

In that example, instrument 2 introduces the "polymetre" of 4/4 against 3/4 facilitating a slightly smoother move into 4/4.

Notice that in the final bar before the 4/4 change there will be a "double accent" where the final strong pulse of the 3/4 has a new downbeat in 4/4. To get around this you simply disregard that beat structure a bit (I.e SS W W | 4/4 S W SS W) or make the transition long enough to have the full length of 3:4 (12 beats).

There are other ways to do this, but that is one of the easier ones. Is that what you are after?

Thank you for this!  I got an update - is the term I'm looking for "metric modulation" ?

Short answer is "yes", long answer is: "kinda". tongue

Online
Wisconsin, USA

lololololol

I love that answer, thank you smile

Are there other terms?

Offline
Melbourne, Australia
orangedrink wrote:

lololololol

I love that answer, thank you smile

Are there other terms?

Well, simply changing time signature isn't necessarily metric modulation. Metric modulation is changing between tempo and/or time signature where one fundamental pulse becomes a new, different, fundamental pulse. For example: an 8th note duplet becomes an 8th note triplet (1.5x faster, approximately) and that triplet then becomes the new 8th note duplet at a new tempo that is 1.5x faster than the original. Shifting from 4/4 to 3/4 at the same tempo isn't really something that needs/is metric modulation, because it is just losing (or gaining) a quarter-note impulse, but if you're really adhering to the difference in "feel" (few people actually do this), then adding the "feel" of one or the other by a technique such as polymetre, or polyrhythm, facilitates the change. So there are different metric devices that facilitate different types of changes in different ways. Hence my vague answer. wink

Online
Wisconsin, USA

Wow, thanks for all your time writing this out.  I'm going to have to sit with a drum machine/drum kit and try punching all these out.