Online
The future
Dwight Davis wrote:

My setup is as follows: Two screens, FL Studio 10, a few downloaded plugins, and a cheap pair of Sennheiser headphones. All I've learned about music has been in the past three/four years messing around on FL Studio, and whatever I've managed to learn from band class (french horn!). So, yeah, I have NO FREAKING CLUE what the heck you guys are even talking about. I wish I had some way to learn about mixing and engineering a good song, but being in high school still, and not knowing any experts in real life, it's hard to learn stuff. Any suggestions on where to go to understand all of this?

Try asking some specific questions wink  I dont think anyone here is gonna tell you to go fuck yourself.
Also, there are lots of resources online that talk about this stuff. Video and text.

Offline
St Louis

as far as my very biased opinion, I recommend going to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, as their Sound dept. is top notch, and that's where I went to study this stuff. I could list some books I have on my amazon wishlist, but only if requested (plus, I haven't even read them yet wink

Offline
St Louis

(in other words, just keep at it and read stuff online like this thread here, and check out other forums, and keep practicing and learning, and play stuff on different systems at friends houses, mastering is a consensus of how many things you've heard it on... I too use cheap sennheisers, some decent earbuds, and just some JBLs to monitor, gotta use what you got and upgrade when possible)

Offline
The Wisconsin

Thanks. I'm not quite ready to decide a college yet, but I guess a good question is what's a good website/blog to start out on just to learn some of the basics, and get to know more about making songs?

Online
The future
Dwight Davis wrote:

Thanks. I'm not quite ready to decide a college yet, but I guess a good question is what's a good website/blog to start out on just to learn some of the basics, and get to know more about making songs?

Hmm.. well. as far as making songs.. its good to know a little bit of theory, but dont let it dominate you. Try reading through something like http://www.musictheory.net/

Offline
The Wisconsin

Thanks Phil. I'll try to look through some of that.
Also, specifically for FL Studio, what (preferably free) plugins could anybody recommend? I'm not too happy with the one I've been using for the majority of my synths.

Online
The future
Dwight Davis wrote:

Thanks Phil. I'll try to look through some of that.
Also, specifically for FL Studio, what (preferably free) plugins could anybody recommend? I'm not too happy with the one I've been using for the majority of my synths.

reaper is free aside from a short nag screen.. it is a full featured DAW.. as for plugins.. well. there are thousands of free plugins that are just as good as the commercial ones.. just search around on KVR..
here (these are all free): [url]http://www.kvraudio.com/q.php?search=1&pr[]=f[/url]

Offline
AU

^^  Reaper is what I use.  Highly highly recommended.  You'll find you will probably want to still use FL along side Reaper though.  There is nothing wrong with it as a sequencing tool - it just misses a few features that are very fluid in Reaper.  I know Derris Kharlin made the jump  from FL to Reaper with minimal probs.

As far as lots of talk of compression, etc, the Reaper users guide actually has some really good tips and explanations in the user guide.  http://reaper.fm/userguide/ReaperUserGuide426C.pdf   

I learnt most of what I've picked up from either playing or reading Audio Technology magazine (australian mag) which has a few articles a month on - usually live or studio engineering - and there are always some amazing techniques and trips in there.

There are also some great guides on youtube the introduces concepts.

At end of the day it's about using your ears - and playing with knobs.  Sounds like what you are making is pretty solid for the most part.  And when you do get a pair of studio monitors and a little bit of acoustic material to whack up around your room - a lot of things will unfold and you'll know what to click from practice.  :-)

Offline
Melbourne, Australia

MusicTheory.net is awesome. Also, cTrix I am so incredibly jealous of your studio, it looks amazing!

Offline
Melbourne, Australia

This thread is invaluable. Thanks guys heart

Offline
Adelaide, Australia
Derris-Kharlan wrote:

This thread is invaluable. Thanks guys heart

It's a good thread. I've been checking it out when I can, but haven't had the time to write an epic post about my own production techniques. A lot of stuff has been covered and it's a good read.

Offline
St Louis

I've found that besides the internet, occasionally picking up a magazine about electronic music is pretty great. especially when they come with those discs full of plugins and whatnot.

Offline
CA, USA

This is a topic I'm always curious about, thanks for starting Phil.

A lot of points mentioned got me thinking about how I approach production and mixing, and how even over the past year a few techniques have changed for me.

Since this is a pretty deep subject, I'll try not to write a book here but just kind of reflect back at the previous posts.


I use a similar approach as Phil Harmonic, sequencing with FL10 then using external synths, analog as much as possible.
I noticed that even though I know how to use side-chaining, and even have an external hardware compressor I can side chain with, I never use it. Instead I'll use volume clip envelopes for any thing I want to cut, but then I always have some pretty strong compression on the FLS master buss, and get pumping that way.

I've listened to a lot of other mixers talk about keeping off masterbuss compression and using it mostly on your group channels, but I'll admit I have a fetish for the LA2A (or optical style compressor), and then follow it up with a kind of limiting type of compression on the main buss.

I use to use LA2A (waves) into two different soundgoodizers, both soundgoodizers on different settings (B,A or C,A), and backed off to just a small amount of limiting on each soundgoodizer. For those not familiar with Fruity Soundgoodizer its basically FL Studios version of a kind of (Waves) "One Knob" modern multiband compressor, (Maximus). So the result would be like having a LA2A feeding into a L3 multiband kind of thing. Though to be honest I like the soundgoodizer / maximus sound just a sliver more than the L2 / L3 sound.

The thing is lately, I've really been trying to get more of that 70s' early 80's sound so I've been using LA2A into Kramer Master Tape, and it really gets you 95% of the way there.

I guess I'm just addicted to getting the pumping of the LA2A, for me its like the total sound of the 70s, then using a limiter or modern multiband compressor after it to bring back the over all level and get a modern frequency response.

On the compression issue, another thing that I've never really been happy with is parallel compression with FL Studio, theres always a latency issue, and even after correcting (theres manual compensation on channels in FLS), it just doesn't seem to phase right or something.
I think if I had a real analog mixing desk and the actual gear I'd probably use more parallel compression, or parallel techniques in general, but for now I just prefer using a single compressor and an eq directly on a channel if I need to beef something up.

But ya, instead of using L2 on your masterbuss check out the Kramer Master Tape, or any of the new tape emulation plugs that have been coming out the past year or three, they're pretty amazing at giving more body but without that blocky L2 Ultra setting sound.

I don't use Pro-Tools, but I've heard that Heat is supposed to do something similar.

I do all my work at 24Bit 44.1k /32B within FLS or rendering stems. If I ever get signed then maybe I'll think about 96k smile, but till then I'd rather conserve drive space.


There are a couple plugs I really like, that really do work magic that you might want to check out,

1st the waves API550B and 560?graphic eq on snare, the API eq is so damn musical, just check out the snare presets its pretty amazing.
2nd, the FL Convolver (or any convolution reverb) with spring reverb impulses. I'm really choosy with reverb, but the Fokke van Saane impulses are awesome. I found some king tubby impulses at Dubbhism a week or two ago that are really impressive!
I like turning off any normalization on the convolver and turn off any eq, to try and get the pure impulse without any pre-shaping.
3rd CLA vocals, the only thing the plugin is missing is a de-esser, but aside from that its really amazing.
4th FL Flangus, not as a flanger, but use it like a very short slap delay, its in one of the preset menu settings (deep chorus), its like an instant stereo / 80s delayish sound, really great on vocs.


For monitoring, I've actually been getting use to the EX-29 extreme isolation headphones, the frequency response is pretty poor, but they're loud. And the barrier / noise reduction between the phones and the outside world is awesome.
No mic bleed, and any outside traffic, trains, or dog noise is pretty much blocked. The lack of deep lows in the headphones kind of makes you give it a little more boost and attention in the mix. But I only really use the phones for recording and editing, any kind of level balance or compression and eq I use my JBL Pro monitor.
Usually if I get it sounding balanced on the mains, and it sounds ok in the phones, I'll render it out to mp3 and give a listen on the way to the store in the car. If there is any problem with the mid range it will usually be really obvious in the car.
Its kind of like my makeshift ns10.

Online
The future

Holy Crap! CK you're still alive! ;D
Thanks for your kind words and insight. I think the best additions to flstudio 9/10 was the ability to use sidechains with their compressor/limiter.. i wish it worked for more plugins though. It's far better than using their peak detector thing.  On the LA2A or LA2A style compression, I usually only use it for stuff that requires a lot of slow delicate compression. Like vocals or strings. For drums and stuff that needs punch I will use a faster 1176 style compressor and put and LA2A on top of it just to even it out a little. On the 2buss, if I think there's any weird shit sticking out or I just want a little glue before mastering I will use either an SSL style compressor or a fairchild style compressor. Most of these are formulae that I have read about and generally seem to work.


CK wrote:

This is a topic I'm always curious about, thanks for starting Phil.

A lot of points mentioned got me thinking about how I approach production and mixing, and how even over the past year a few techniques have changed for me.

Since this is a pretty deep subject, I'll try not to write a book here but just kind of reflect back at the previous posts.


I use a similar approach as Phil Harmonic, sequencing with FL10 then using external synths, analog as much as possible.
I noticed that even though I know how to use side-chaining, and even have an external hardware compressor I can side chain with, I never use it. Instead I'll use volume clip envelopes for any thing I want to cut, but then I always have some pretty strong compression on the FLS master buss, and get pumping that way.

I've listened to a lot of other mixers talk about keeping off masterbuss compression and using it mostly on your group channels, but I'll admit I have a fetish for the LA2A (or optical style compressor), and then follow it up with a kind of limiting type of compression on the main buss.

I use to use LA2A (waves) into two different soundgoodizers, both soundgoodizers on different settings (B,A or C,A), and backed off to just a small amount of limiting on each soundgoodizer. For those not familiar with Fruity Soundgoodizer its basically FL Studios version of a kind of (Waves) "One Knob" modern multiband compressor, (Maximus). So the result would be like having a LA2A feeding into a L3 multiband kind of thing. Though to be honest I like the soundgoodizer / maximus sound just a sliver more than the L2 / L3 sound.

The thing is lately, I've really been trying to get more of that 70s' early 80's sound so I've been using LA2A into Kramer Master Tape, and it really gets you 95% of the way there.

I guess I'm just addicted to getting the pumping of the LA2A, for me its like the total sound of the 70s, then using a limiter or modern multiband compressor after it to bring back the over all level and get a modern frequency response.

On the compression issue, another thing that I've never really been happy with is parallel compression with FL Studio, theres always a latency issue, and even after correcting (theres manual compensation on channels in FLS), it just doesn't seem to phase right or something.
I think if I had a real analog mixing desk and the actual gear I'd probably use more parallel compression, or parallel techniques in general, but for now I just prefer using a single compressor and an eq directly on a channel if I need to beef something up.

But ya, instead of using L2 on your masterbuss check out the Kramer Master Tape, or any of the new tape emulation plugs that have been coming out the past year or three, they're pretty amazing at giving more body but without that blocky L2 Ultra setting sound.

I don't use Pro-Tools, but I've heard that Heat is supposed to do something similar.

I do all my work at 24Bit 44.1k /32B within FLS or rendering stems. If I ever get signed then maybe I'll think about 96k smile, but till then I'd rather conserve drive space.


There are a couple plugs I really like, that really do work magic that you might want to check out,

1st the waves API550B and 560?graphic eq on snare, the API eq is so damn musical, just check out the snare presets its pretty amazing.
2nd, the FL Convolver (or any convolution reverb) with spring reverb impulses. I'm really choosy with reverb, but the Fokke van Saane impulses are awesome. I found some king tubby impulses at Dubbhism a week or two ago that are really impressive!
I like turning off any normalization on the convolver and turn off any eq, to try and get the pure impulse without any pre-shaping.
3rd CLA vocals, the only thing the plugin is missing is a de-esser, but aside from that its really amazing.
4th FL Flangus, not as a flanger, but use it like a very short slap delay, its in one of the preset menu settings (deep chorus), its like an instant stereo / 80s delayish sound, really great on vocs.


For monitoring, I've actually been getting use to the EX-29 extreme isolation headphones, the frequency response is pretty poor, but they're loud. And the barrier / noise reduction between the phones and the outside world is awesome.
No mic bleed, and any outside traffic, trains, or dog noise is pretty much blocked. The lack of deep lows in the headphones kind of makes you give it a little more boost and attention in the mix. But I only really use the phones for recording and editing, any kind of level balance or compression and eq I use my JBL Pro monitor.
Usually if I get it sounding balanced on the mains, and it sounds ok in the phones, I'll render it out to mp3 and give a listen on the way to the store in the car. If there is any problem with the mid range it will usually be really obvious in the car.
Its kind of like my makeshift ns10.