Interesting piece, my cockatiel seemed to enjoy it more than me.
On an odd note, I felt like the sound was predominantly panned right... though it may just be my dodgy hearing.

Interesting piece, my cockatiel seemed to enjoy it more than me. On an odd note, I felt like the sound was predominantly panned right... though it may just be my dodgy hearing.

It's possible that it was. I did it on my laptop so I couldn't really hear much panning, though I wrote a panning algorithm, I didn't think it worked! If it is panned, it's the delay lines that are panned while the initial impulses are in the left. Which is why the majority of it sounds in the right, if that happened.

It's possible that it was. I did it on my laptop so I couldn't really hear much panning, though I wrote a panning algorithm, I didn't think it worked! If it is panned, it's the delay lines that are panned while the initial impulses are in the left. Which is why the majority of it sounds in the right, if that happened.

… see above in case you missed it.

[quote=Lyons]Interesting piece, my cockatiel seemed to enjoy it more than me. On an odd note, I felt like the sound was predominantly panned right... though it may just be my dodgy hearing.[/quote] … see above in case you missed it.

this actually did not bother my ears as much as some of your work, I enjoyed the weird upper frequency range as you do not usually hear those sounds too much. it also seemed like a lighter touch than usual, good stuff.

this actually did not bother my ears as much as some of your work, I enjoyed the weird upper frequency range as you do not usually hear those sounds too much. it also seemed like a lighter touch than usual, good stuff.

always love pieces that push the limits too, this is just the limits of our perception!

always love pieces that push the limits too, this is just the limits of our perception!

I suspect that the lack of bothering of the ears is probably because the relative space between frequencies is greater than in my past explorations of this territory. For instance, the HF stuff in last week's (and the installation) are clustered in a fairly small band, whereas this is spread out over random multiples between 12 and 24kHz. No clustering, so the likelihood of getting frequency beating in a challenging range of frequencies is quite low.

Thanks so much, for both comments. I'm glad you liked it.

[quote=george bowles]this actually did not bother my ears as much as some of your work, I enjoyed the weird upper frequency range as you do not usually hear those sounds too much. it also seemed like a lighter touch than usual, good stuff.[/quote] I suspect that the lack of bothering of the ears is probably because the relative space between frequencies is greater than in my past explorations of this territory. For instance, the HF stuff in last week's (and the installation) are clustered in a fairly small band, whereas this is spread out over random multiples between 12 and 24kHz. No clustering, so the likelihood of getting frequency beating in a challenging range of frequencies is quite low. Thanks so much, for both comments. I'm glad you liked it.

i think that's exactly right, there's more space in there and it isn't as overwhelming

i think that's exactly right, there's more space in there and it isn't as overwhelming

Yeah. Brilliant.

[quote=george bowles]i think that's exactly right, there's more space in there and it isn't as overwhelming[/quote] Yeah. Brilliant.

I like it.  Quite freaky really.  Some parts remind me of riding a filter just before oscillation.  There's some beautiful tones to be had in that realm.

I like it. Quite freaky really. Some parts remind me of riding a filter just before oscillation. There's some beautiful tones to be had in that realm.

Is that a PARENTAL WARNING? I can't hear a blessed thing (so much for my hearing)...

Is that a PARENTAL WARNING? I can't hear a blessed thing (so much for my hearing)...

Interesting. I've not heard of filtering BEFORE oscillation - that sounds neat.

Haha. Not a parental warning per se! I was very much wondering whether anybody would have the experience of not being able to hear anything. Not even the low frequency stuff? Interesting. I guess speakers to reproduce it are not all that common.

[quote=rdomain]I like it. Quite freaky really. Some parts remind me of riding a filter just before oscillation. There's some beautiful tones to be had in that realm.[/quote] Interesting. I've not heard of filtering BEFORE oscillation - that sounds neat. [quote=Jim Wood]Is that a PARENTAL WARNING? I can't hear a blessed thing (so much for my hearing)...[/quote] Haha. Not a parental warning per se! I was very much wondering whether anybody would have the experience of not being able to hear anything. Not even the low frequency stuff? Interesting. I guess speakers to reproduce it are not all that common.

I guess I should get under the table & check out the sub-woofer. This would seem to be similar to the high-frequency "mosquito range" sounds that storekeepers use to drive away teenagers (older people can't hear them).

[quote=vinpous] I was very much wondering whether anybody would have the experience of not being able to hear anything. Not even the low frequency stuff? Interesting. I guess speakers to reproduce it are not all that common.[/quote] I guess I should get under the table & check out the sub-woofer. This would seem to be similar to the high-frequency "mosquito range" sounds that storekeepers use to drive away teenagers (older people can't hear them).

Well, old(er) people should still be able to hear the upper frequency stuff that is below 16khz. Unless you have hearing damage?

[quote=Jim Wood][quote=vinpous] I was very much wondering whether anybody would have the experience of not being able to hear anything. Not even the low frequency stuff? Interesting. I guess speakers to reproduce it are not all that common.[/quote] I guess I should get under the table & check out the sub-woofer. This would seem to be similar to the high-frequency "mosquito range" sounds that storekeepers use to drive away teenagers (older people can't hear them). [/quote] Well, old(er) people should still be able to hear the upper frequency stuff that is below 16khz. Unless you have hearing damage?

Well before self oscillation from the filters own resonance to be precise 

Well before self oscillation from the filters own resonance to be precise :)

Ah! Gotcha.

[quote=rdomain]Well before self oscillation from the filters own resonance to be precise :)[/quote] Ah! Gotcha.

A highly interesting and unusual listening experience, I keep wondering if I would hear more on another set of speakers/headphones and if my years as a drummer has damaged my ability to hear everything that's going on here.

A highly interesting and unusual listening experience, I keep wondering if I would hear more on another set of speakers/headphones and if my years as a drummer has damaged my ability to hear everything that's going on here. :)

Too many excessively loud concerts (and I am 72).

[quote=vinpous] Well, old(er) people should still be able to hear the upper frequency stuff that is below 16khz. Unless you have hearing damage?[/quote] Too many excessively loud concerts (and I am 72).

Very cool experiment.  In my little earbuds (Sennheisers) I get a hint of the low end, some high end that mixes with the tinnitus, and some interference crackles--though I listen at a very low volume anyway, and suspect that if I turned up a bit, I'd hear more of the high end.  (At very quiet listening levels, I detect roll-off at 12K, but I'm not sure where it all tops out and by how much. Kids can move a lot of air when they want to.)

Very cool experiment. In my little earbuds (Sennheisers) I get a hint of the low end, some high end that mixes with the tinnitus, and some interference crackles--though I listen at a very low volume anyway, and suspect that if I turned up a bit, I'd hear more of the high end. (At very quiet listening levels, I detect roll-off at 12K, but I'm not sure where it all tops out and by how much. Kids can move a lot of air when they want to.)

Thanks. A little from both columns perhaps? There's also the problem of mp3 compression losing a lot of info above 10kHz.

Damn concerts. The age thing I don't think should make much if any difference assuming reasonable hearing, concerts explains it. I'm really interested in exploring bionic ear technology in composition, particularly in tuning the ear augmentations to frequencies outside of our normal perception, and composing in those frequencies.

Thanks very much. The interference crackles are really interesting. Initially I thought that they were from the sine waves in the low frequency stuff being cut off by the ADSR too early/quickly, but I calculated the length of the ADSR based on the length of a full cycle, so that shouldn't really happen (though phase differences probably explain it, now that I think about it). The roll-off at 12K is probably very true. The fidelity of information in the mp3 version vs the 16bit 44.1k wav version is very noticeable. Mp3 compression rolls off above 10K I think. Nice observation and hearing!

[quote=Plantrain]A highly interesting and unusual listening experience, I keep wondering if I would hear more on another set of speakers/headphones and if my years as a drummer has damaged my ability to hear everything that's going on here. :)[/quote] Thanks. A little from both columns perhaps? There's also the problem of mp3 compression losing a lot of info above 10kHz. [quote=Jim Wood][quote=vinpous] Well, old(er) people should still be able to hear the upper frequency stuff that is below 16khz. Unless you have hearing damage?[/quote] Too many excessively loud concerts (and I am 72). [/quote] Damn concerts. The age thing I don't think should make much if any difference assuming reasonable hearing, concerts explains it. I'm really interested in exploring bionic ear technology in composition, particularly in tuning the ear augmentations to frequencies outside of our normal perception, and composing in those frequencies. [quote=onezero]Very cool experiment. In my little earbuds (Sennheisers) I get a hint of the low end, some high end that mixes with the tinnitus, and some interference crackles--though I listen at a very low volume anyway, and suspect that if I turned up a bit, I'd hear more of the high end. (At very quiet listening levels, I detect roll-off at 12K, but I'm not sure where it all tops out and by how much. Kids can move a lot of air when they want to.)[/quote] Thanks very much. The interference crackles are really interesting. Initially I thought that they were from the sine waves in the low frequency stuff being cut off by the ADSR too early/quickly, but I calculated the length of the ADSR based on the length of a full cycle, so that shouldn't really happen (though phase differences probably explain it, now that I think about it). The roll-off at 12K is probably very true. The fidelity of information in the mp3 version vs the 16bit 44.1k wav version is very noticeable. Mp3 compression rolls off above 10K I think. Nice observation and hearing!

72? So what you're saying is that you saw all the good excessively loud concerts!

Thanks!  Nice patch, btw! 

I really do wonder about those crackles.  I've not encountered those in Pd except in seriously clipped signals, but I've heard them in Ableton when the processor gets overworked.  Might it be that the lows + highs are clipping where we get the crackles?

Also, sorry to hear about the finger, and good luck!

[quote=Jim Wood]Too many excessively loud concerts (and I am 72).[/quote] 72? So what you're saying is that you saw all the [i]good[/i] excessively loud concerts! [quote=vinpous]Thanks very much. The interference crackles are really interesting. Initially I thought that they were from the sine waves in the low frequency stuff being cut off by the ADSR too early/quickly, but I calculated the length of the ADSR based on the length of a full cycle, so that shouldn't really happen (though phase differences probably explain it, now that I think about it). The roll-off at 12K is probably very true. The fidelity of information in the mp3 version vs the 16bit 44.1k wav version is very noticeable. Mp3 compression rolls off above 10K I think. Nice observation and hearing! [/quote] Thanks! Nice patch, btw! I really do wonder about those crackles. I've not encountered those in Pd except in seriously clipped signals, but I've heard them in Ableton when the processor gets overworked. Might it be that the lows + highs are clipping where we get the crackles? Also, sorry to hear about the finger, and good luck!

Thanks! It could well be overdriven outputs as I didn't add and compensate the signals, just fed them straight into the DAC via volume controls. Good idea though.

I think you have my finger confused with Derris-Kharlan's?

[quote=onezero][quote=Jim Wood]Too many excessively loud concerts (and I am 72).[/quote] 72? So what you're saying is that you saw all the [i]good[/i] excessively loud concerts! [quote=vinpous]Thanks very much. The interference crackles are really interesting. Initially I thought that they were from the sine waves in the low frequency stuff being cut off by the ADSR too early/quickly, but I calculated the length of the ADSR based on the length of a full cycle, so that shouldn't really happen (though phase differences probably explain it, now that I think about it). The roll-off at 12K is probably very true. The fidelity of information in the mp3 version vs the 16bit 44.1k wav version is very noticeable. Mp3 compression rolls off above 10K I think. Nice observation and hearing! [/quote] Thanks! Nice patch, btw! I really do wonder about those crackles. I've not encountered those in Pd except in seriously clipped signals, but I've heard them in Ableton when the processor gets overworked. Might it be that the lows + highs are clipping where we get the crackles? Also, sorry to hear about the finger, and good luck![/quote] Thanks! It could well be overdriven outputs as I didn't add and compensate the signals, just fed them straight into the DAC via volume controls. Good idea though. I think you have my finger confused with Derris-Kharlan's? :)

beautiful sound esthetic!

beautiful sound esthetic!

:0

sound science up in here....

wow!

kinda concerned for your finger tho...

well done for this esoterically poetic bit of white noize....

:0 sound science up in here.... wow! kinda concerned for your finger tho... well done for this esoterically poetic bit of white noize....

Cheers!

[quote=Stefano D'Alessio]beautiful sound esthetic![/quote] Cheers! [quote=PhillipeGrishin]:0 Thanks muchly. My finger is fine, it was my friend's to whom the piece is dedicated! sound science up in here.... wow! kinda concerned for your finger tho... well done for this esoterically poetic bit of white noize.... [/quote]

Hah! So, not wanting to miss out, I downloaded the lossless version and dropped the pitch drastically in Amadeus. It's now on repeat play in iTunes.

Hah! So, not wanting to miss out, I downloaded the lossless version and dropped the pitch drastically in Amadeus. It's now on repeat play in iTunes.

Hahaha! How far did you drop it? Because those sub-20Hz frequencies would have completely disappeared.
How was the rest of it?

[quote=Jim Wood]Hah! So, not wanting to miss out, I downloaded the lossless version and dropped the pitch drastically in Amadeus. It's now on repeat play in iTunes.[/quote] Hahaha! How far did you drop it? Because those sub-20Hz frequencies would have completely disappeared. How was the rest of it?

By a couple of octaves. So, yes, the low frequencies were completely gone. It was just frustrating to be able to SEE the piece in Amadeus, but not HEAR it.
(a friend stopped over and I played the original for him; he couldn't hear anything either -- perhaps it's my speakers/headphones?)

The shifted piece was, as are all of your works, thought-provoking :-)

[quote=vinpous]Hahaha! How far did you drop it? Because those sub-20Hz frequencies would have completely disappeared. How was the rest of it?[/quote] By a couple of octaves. So, yes, the low frequencies were completely gone. It was just frustrating to be able to SEE the piece in Amadeus, but not HEAR it. (a friend stopped over and I played the original for him; he couldn't hear anything either -- perhaps it's my speakers/headphones?) The shifted piece was, as are all of your works, thought-provoking :-)

Hey Jim. I'm probably including this piece in my PhD. Thought you'd like to know. It was fun reading through all these comments and the experiences of listeners with the work!

[quote=Jim Wood][quote=vinpous]Hahaha! How far did you drop it? Because those sub-20Hz frequencies would have completely disappeared. How was the rest of it?[/quote] By a couple of octaves. So, yes, the low frequencies were completely gone. It was just frustrating to be able to SEE the piece in Amadeus, but not HEAR it. (a friend stopped over and I played the original for him; he couldn't hear anything either -- perhaps it's my speakers/headphones?) The shifted piece was, as are all of your works, thought-provoking :-) [/quote] Hey Jim. I'm probably including this piece in my PhD. Thought you'd like to know. It was fun reading through all these comments and the experiences of listeners with the work!