Curious what you find are some pros/cons with Bitwig vs Logic? I am thinking about maybe buying Logic in the near future, but only because it seems similar to GarageBand which I'm getting more and more familiar with.

This track is super chill. Interesting choice with the bassoon, kinda sounds like a stringed instrument as well. I think the oboe works well with it. Nice gentle chords, and a crisp beat to tie it all together.

Curious what you find are some pros/cons with Bitwig vs Logic? I am thinking about maybe buying Logic in the near future, but only because it seems similar to GarageBand which I'm getting more and more familiar with. This track is super chill. Interesting choice with the bassoon, kinda sounds like a stringed instrument as well. I think the oboe works well with it. Nice gentle chords, and a crisp beat to tie it all together.

oh boy... Bitwig vs Logic Pro X ... biiiiiiig question... but I will try and summarize opinions, while trying to avoid starting any holly wars... (ㆆ _ ㆆ)

How they are the same...
Both have 2 sequences, a clip based "live loop" launcher, and a traditional, left to right sequencer; both have really great sounding channel strip stock plugins (EQ, compressors, Filters, etc); both have a huge library of stock VSTi, loops, one-shots, etc, that are better than most give them credit for; both have sufficient midi editing capabilities (though they differ slightly and each has good things that the other doesn't); both are fully capable regarding recording audio, mixing and mastering, though neither is best in class for kind of any of that. 

Why I like Logic...
Logic is very easy to use and very intuitive (for me).  I also started with Garage Band, and it is VERY similar... Apple knew what they were doing when they made Garage Band, it's very much a gateway drug to Logic.  Logic is also a really great "all around" DAW, it's not as good as Abelton for live play and beat making, it's not as good as Pro Tools for recording or mixing, it's not as good as Cuebase for MIDI editing and composing to picture... it's not really the best at anything... but it is better at all three of those things than most other DAWs (there is a pretty strong argument for Cubase being better at all of those things... but the learning curve is pretty steep and its MUCH more expensive)... so for the price, your hard pressed to find any other DAW (not counting Reaper, which I will mention later), that is as versatile, and powerful.  Also because it is one of the like "big three" DAWs, there is a TON of third party products built to work with it.  Like MetaGrid, PlugSearch and Art Conductor, just to name the three that I find it hard to live without.  Also it has a mastering assistant as a stock plugin now!!! So like Ozone... but it comes with the DAW. 

Why I like Bitwig...
Bitwig is really like a group of developers from Ableton were like "we can do better, lets go make our own DAW"... and they may have been right.  Bitwig is a BEAST for sound design and complex modulations.  Where Logic has a bunch of serviceable VSTi that you can play, and tweak a bit... Bitwig has a bunch of synth engines that (if you are handy with patching synths) you can pretty much make whatever you want with... I mean there is a full modular synth environment as a stock plugin!!!!  You can modulate basically anything that has a knob or button, and it is VERY intuitive to interact with.  So to get the same level of sound design capability out of Logic you need like OPx-4 (or Dexed), and Serum (or Vital), and VCV Rack Pro (or Cardinal)... and even if you go with the free versions of all those things, they aren't all built to play nice with each other, but Bitwig's Polymer, FM-4, Phase-4, and PolyGrid "devices" are.  Also, while Logic has a Drum Machine Designer that is (IMHO) super underrated, creating a drum kit, and programming drums is WAY WAY WAY faster with Bitwig (even as a newbie).  Also it's multi-platform, Windows, Mac, AND Linux (which is a big one for me)

Things I don't like about Logic...
There are a surprisingly large number of things that are weirdly buried in menus, and often hard to find when you need them, if you don't use them a lot.  Logic also disagrees with me about what some of the defaults for a project should be... and there is no way to change the fact that it's default... so the first thing I have to do with a blank project is go and change a bunch of settings.  Also, there is no way to actually fully select multiple tracks to make administrative type changes in bulk, so like if you want to change the freeze mode on 10 tracks... well, you have 30 clicks in your future.  So, if you have strong feelings about how a project should look to start off with... you REALLY need to make a template... and if you add tracks to while writing, you have to be aware of how a NEW track will differ from a DUPLICATED track, etc. 

Things I don't like about Bitwig...
It is missing a few little quality of life things, that I really don't understand how it has made it over a decade without incorporating... like the ability to freeze tracks.  There is a pretty straight forward workaround for freezing a track if you need to free up CPU... but it takes what would a single button click in (most) other DAWs, and makes it like a 3-5 step process.  Also, there may be a way to change this that I didn't find, but like when you play in midi and record it to a blank spot on the arranger, the region it creates is EXACTLY the length you recorded... it doesn't auto snap the end of the region to the nearest bar... even if it's only like 1/16th note from it... so later if you drag the region out to loop it, every thing will be out of time... so when you record in a clip, you have to remember to stretch it out to be the right size before you start moving things around.  Also, notably, it is missing an auto sampler... you can totally still record multi-samples, but again it's a whole lot of manual effort that you get in Logic (and a number of other DAWs) for free.

Verdict...
I was never going to be able to replace Logic with Bitwig because the bulk of my writing is composing to picture, and while you CAN sync video with Bitwig, it's too much of a chore.  So really I was looking at Bitwig to see if it would be something I would prefer for EDM production and if it was easy enough to learn that I would be able to be productive in it without it being my main DAW, so really for me it's competing with Renoise, not Logic... and it (mostly) wins that.  It has some annoyances, and a lack of an auto-sampler is a bummer, but the sound design ability and general workflow is worth it for me AS A SECONDARY DAW... if I had to pick only one DAW, it would be Logic hands down.  It's easy to use, it's fast to learn, there are TONs of resources devoted to it, it's (relatively) inexpensive, and you get A LOT for the price.  It's not better at anything than everything else, but it's better at everything than anything else. 

BUT like any DAW really it comes down to like what workflow you're trying to support and what you aim to do with it... Logic is a very good successor to Garage Band (which is a perfectly usable DAW BTW, like it gets a lot of shade because it's free, but it's kind of amazingly full featured for what it is).  But, your workflow might fit better into a Bitwig/Ableton style of production... or if you find you want a very personalize thing and are willing to invest the time in something like Reaper. It is another DRASTICALLY underrated DAW... it REQUIRES that you customize it, and spend a lot of time with it to learn, but it can be great at basically anything your willing to set it up to be great at... and it's like $70!!!  Renoise is another one that if you're already familiar with a tracker workflow, you can get VERY VERY VERY fast with it... and it's also dirt cheap. 

Really though I would very much recommend that you use the free-trials for ALL of the above... Logic has a 90 days trial; Reaper has I think a 60 day trial, then it's just nagware, like you can use it for free for basically ever, so long as you don't mind having a window pop up when you launch it, asking you to pay; Bitwig has a 30 day trial, Cuebase as well... also Renoise has a demo that's feature limited, but not time limited.  So my go to is to sign up for the trial and then try to make like 2 or 3 tracks... and see which make me the least angry, and that has served me well thus far. 

[quote=that_ranjit]Curious what you find are some pros/cons with Bitwig vs Logic? I am thinking about maybe buying Logic in the near future, but only because it seems similar to GarageBand which I'm getting more and more familiar with. This track is super chill. Interesting choice with the bassoon, kinda sounds like a stringed instrument as well. I think the oboe works well with it. Nice gentle chords, and a crisp beat to tie it all together.[/quote] oh boy... Bitwig vs Logic Pro X ... biiiiiiig question... but I will try and summarize opinions, while trying to avoid starting any holly wars... (ㆆ _ ㆆ) How they are the same... Both have 2 sequences, a clip based "live loop" launcher, and a traditional, left to right sequencer; both have really great sounding channel strip stock plugins (EQ, compressors, Filters, etc); both have a huge library of stock VSTi, loops, one-shots, etc, that are better than most give them credit for; both have sufficient midi editing capabilities (though they differ slightly and each has good things that the other doesn't); both are fully capable regarding recording audio, mixing and mastering, though neither is best in class for kind of any of that. Why I like Logic... Logic is very easy to use and very intuitive (for me). I also started with Garage Band, and it is VERY similar... Apple knew what they were doing when they made Garage Band, it's very much a gateway drug to Logic. Logic is also a really great "all around" DAW, it's not as good as Abelton for live play and beat making, it's not as good as Pro Tools for recording or mixing, it's not as good as Cuebase for MIDI editing and composing to picture... it's not really the best at anything... but it is better at all three of those things than most other DAWs (there is a pretty strong argument for Cubase being better at all of those things... but the learning curve is pretty steep and its MUCH more expensive)... so for the price, your hard pressed to find any other DAW (not counting Reaper, which I will mention later), that is as versatile, and powerful. Also because it is one of the like "big three" DAWs, there is a TON of third party products built to work with it. Like MetaGrid, PlugSearch and Art Conductor, just to name the three that I find it hard to live without. Also it has a mastering assistant as a stock plugin now!!! So like Ozone... but it comes with the DAW. Why I like Bitwig... Bitwig is really like a group of developers from Ableton were like "we can do better, lets go make our own DAW"... and they may have been right. Bitwig is a BEAST for sound design and complex modulations. Where Logic has a bunch of serviceable VSTi that you can play, and tweak a bit... Bitwig has a bunch of synth engines that (if you are handy with patching synths) you can pretty much make whatever you want with... I mean there is a full modular synth environment as a stock plugin!!!! You can modulate basically anything that has a knob or button, and it is VERY intuitive to interact with. So to get the same level of sound design capability out of Logic you need like OPx-4 (or Dexed), and Serum (or Vital), and VCV Rack Pro (or Cardinal)... and even if you go with the free versions of all those things, they aren't all built to play nice with each other, but Bitwig's Polymer, FM-4, Phase-4, and PolyGrid "devices" are. Also, while Logic has a Drum Machine Designer that is (IMHO) super underrated, creating a drum kit, and programming drums is WAY WAY WAY faster with Bitwig (even as a newbie). Also it's multi-platform, Windows, Mac, AND Linux (which is a big one for me) Things I don't like about Logic... There are a surprisingly large number of things that are weirdly buried in menus, and often hard to find when you need them, if you don't use them a lot. Logic also disagrees with me about what some of the defaults for a project should be... and there is no way to change the fact that it's default... so the first thing I have to do with a blank project is go and change a bunch of settings. Also, there is no way to actually fully select multiple tracks to make administrative type changes in bulk, so like if you want to change the freeze mode on 10 tracks... well, you have 30 clicks in your future. So, if you have strong feelings about how a project should look to start off with... you REALLY need to make a template... and if you add tracks to while writing, you have to be aware of how a NEW track will differ from a DUPLICATED track, etc. Things I don't like about Bitwig... It is missing a few little quality of life things, that I really don't understand how it has made it over a decade without incorporating... like the ability to freeze tracks. There is a pretty straight forward workaround for freezing a track if you need to free up CPU... but it takes what would a single button click in (most) other DAWs, and makes it like a 3-5 step process. Also, there may be a way to change this that I didn't find, but like when you play in midi and record it to a blank spot on the arranger, the region it creates is EXACTLY the length you recorded... it doesn't auto snap the end of the region to the nearest bar... even if it's only like 1/16th note from it... so later if you drag the region out to loop it, every thing will be out of time... so when you record in a clip, you have to remember to stretch it out to be the right size before you start moving things around. Also, notably, it is missing an auto sampler... you can totally still record multi-samples, but again it's a whole lot of manual effort that you get in Logic (and a number of other DAWs) for free. Verdict... I was never going to be able to replace Logic with Bitwig because the bulk of my writing is composing to picture, and while you CAN sync video with Bitwig, it's too much of a chore. So really I was looking at Bitwig to see if it would be something I would prefer for EDM production and if it was easy enough to learn that I would be able to be productive in it without it being my main DAW, so really for me it's competing with Renoise, not Logic... and it (mostly) wins that. It has some annoyances, and a lack of an auto-sampler is a bummer, but the sound design ability and general workflow is worth it for me AS A SECONDARY DAW... if I had to pick only one DAW, it would be Logic hands down. It's easy to use, it's fast to learn, there are TONs of resources devoted to it, it's (relatively) inexpensive, and you get A LOT for the price. It's not better at anything than everything else, but it's better at everything than anything else. BUT like any DAW really it comes down to like what workflow you're trying to support and what you aim to do with it... Logic is a very good successor to Garage Band (which is a perfectly usable DAW BTW, like it gets a lot of shade because it's free, but it's kind of amazingly full featured for what it is). But, your workflow might fit better into a Bitwig/Ableton style of production... or if you find you want a very personalize thing and are willing to invest the time in something like Reaper. It is another DRASTICALLY underrated DAW... it REQUIRES that you customize it, and spend a lot of time with it to learn, but it can be great at basically anything your willing to set it up to be great at... and it's like $70!!! Renoise is another one that if you're already familiar with a tracker workflow, you can get VERY VERY VERY fast with it... and it's also dirt cheap. Really though I would very much recommend that you use the free-trials for ALL of the above... Logic has a 90 days trial; Reaper has I think a 60 day trial, then it's just nagware, like you can use it for free for basically ever, so long as you don't mind having a window pop up when you launch it, asking you to pay; Bitwig has a 30 day trial, Cuebase as well... also Renoise has a demo that's feature limited, but not time limited. So my go to is to sign up for the trial and then try to make like 2 or 3 tracks... and see which make me the least angry, and that has served me well thus far.

Love the melody of the woodwinds.  Gave me some Bill Conti vibes a bit.  Like old school Rocky in a rain soaked montage on his way to a fight outside the states   well done!

Love the melody of the woodwinds. Gave me some Bill Conti vibes a bit. Like old school Rocky in a rain soaked montage on his way to a fight outside the states :) well done!

Haha, I didn't want to step into a DAW debacle. I come from Logic, I still have the ancient Logic Studio box I bought in 2007. I used trackers before that but that ended up with crappy mixing and mastering every time. With a proper DAW like Logic this changed.

In mid 2016 I switched to Ableton Live for its live performance capabilities, and I stayed with it since. This is the software I open if I actually want to produce a track to share with others.

I'm in the process of completing an album from the strongest pieces I made over the years, and there's a bunch that required me to open Logic again. It looks pretty fancy these days, the new instruments and FX look pretty tempting, and the live loops functionality would probably be enough for the things I need from it for live performance... but the Ableton Live muscle memory is unrelenting!

---

Let's talk about your track for a second. Nice moody neo-classical lofi. I think the bassoon works! You're playing it in pretty high registers so there's an oboe quality to it. I like it.

The samples in general are rather staccato and pitched high so they don't quite sound like a typical TR-909 kit!

Nitpick: one of the kicks is off center, which is somewhat unorthodox for kicks. Also, I'd add some more cymbals, rides, shakers, etc. and glue it all with some lofi saturation.

Haha, I didn't want to step into a DAW debacle. I come from Logic, I still have the ancient Logic Studio box I bought in 2007. I used trackers before that but that ended up with crappy mixing and mastering every time. With a proper DAW like Logic this changed. In mid 2016 I switched to Ableton Live for its live performance capabilities, and I stayed with it since. This is the software I open if I actually want to produce a track to share with others. I'm in the process of completing an album from the strongest pieces I made over the years, and there's a bunch that required me to open Logic again. It looks pretty fancy these days, the new instruments and FX look pretty tempting, and the live loops functionality would probably be enough for the things I need from it for live performance... but the Ableton Live muscle memory is unrelenting! --- Let's talk about your track for a second. Nice moody neo-classical lofi. I think the bassoon works! You're playing it in pretty high registers so there's an oboe quality to it. I like it. The samples in general are rather staccato and pitched high so they don't quite sound like a typical TR-909 kit! Nitpick: one of the kicks is off center, which is somewhat unorthodox for kicks. Also, I'd add some more cymbals, rides, shakers, etc. and glue it all with some lofi saturation.

Tasty melody, I like the basoon / wind sounds. The rain soaking sets some great ambiance. After reading Tone Matrix comment, I'm just picture that montage which is fun. Cool to hear your thoughts on the DAWs. I got hooked on Ableton with the Push. Sometimes curious about Logic.

Tasty melody, I like the basoon / wind sounds. The rain soaking sets some great ambiance. After reading Tone Matrix comment, I'm just picture that montage which is fun. Cool to hear your thoughts on the DAWs. I got hooked on Ableton with the Push. Sometimes curious about Logic.

This makes me wish it was raining outside
super calm vibe, love it

This makes me wish it was raining outside super calm vibe, love it

really enjoyed all the notes on DAWS - thank you

[img]https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/105/105293.gif[/img] really enjoyed all the notes on DAWS - thank you

Beautiful piano progression and arrangement. I think the lead melodies for the oboe and bassoon came out nicely. Don't give up on that bassoon!

Beautiful piano progression and arrangement. I think the lead melodies for the oboe and bassoon came out nicely. Don't give up on that bassoon!

Thanks... though now suddenly have a craving for a half dozen raw eggs...

Well, workflow is what's it's all about right... what ever gets the tracks finished right?

The Push is a sweet bit of kit... I'll admit that the Push 3 fired up a fair amount of Gear Acquisition Syndrome in me, and Abletons general workflow is actually what I like about Bitwig.  So yeah I can totally see that path... and Ableton great.

I'm glad it hit that chill "hot coco" type vibe. 

I hope it was useful... certainly helped me to crystalize my thoughts on Bitwig Studio. 

I'm pretty sure this progression came from messing about on HookTheory's Trends resource.  I think it ended up being a progression I lifted from an Allie X song... not sure which one though.  And, I might give the bassoon another shot one day... but for now it's a better instrument than I am a writer, so I guess now I have a musical achievement to strive for. 

[quote=Tone Matrix]Love the melody of the woodwinds. Gave me some Bill Conti vibes a bit. Like old school Rocky in a rain soaked montage on his way to a fight outside the states :) well done![/quote] Thanks... though now suddenly have a craving for a half dozen raw eggs... [quote=rplktr]Haha, I didn't want to step into a DAW debacle. I come from Logic, I still have the ancient Logic Studio box I bought in 2007. I used trackers before that but that ended up with crappy mixing and mastering every time. With a proper DAW like Logic this changed. In mid 2016 I switched to Ableton Live for its live performance capabilities, and I stayed with it since. This is the software I open if I actually want to produce a track to share with others. I'm in the process of completing an album from the strongest pieces I made over the years, and there's a bunch that required me to open Logic again. It looks pretty fancy these days, the new instruments and FX look pretty tempting, and the live loops functionality would probably be enough for the things I need from it for live performance... but the Ableton Live muscle memory is unrelenting! [/quote] Well, workflow is what's it's all about right... what ever gets the tracks finished right? [quote=miraclemiles]Tasty melody, I like the basoon / wind sounds. The rain soaking sets some great ambiance. After reading Tone Matrix comment, I'm just picture that montage which is fun. Cool to hear your thoughts on the DAWs. I got hooked on Ableton with the Push. Sometimes curious about Logic. [/quote] The Push is a sweet bit of kit... I'll admit that the Push 3 fired up a fair amount of Gear Acquisition Syndrome in me, and Abletons general workflow is actually what I like about Bitwig. So yeah I can totally see that path... and Ableton great. [quote=XC3N]This makes me wish it was raining outside super calm vibe, love it[/quote] I'm glad it hit that chill "hot coco" type vibe. [quote=miraclemiles]Tasty melody, I like the basoon / wind sounds. The rain soaking sets some great ambiance. After reading Tone Matrix comment, I'm just picture that montage which is fun. Cool to hear your thoughts on the DAWs. I got hooked on Ableton with the Push. Sometimes curious about Logic. [/quote] [quote=XC3N]This makes me wish it was raining outside super calm vibe, love it[/quote] [quote=emily] really enjoyed all the notes on DAWS - thank you[/quote] I hope it was useful... certainly helped me to crystalize my thoughts on Bitwig Studio. [quote=ViridianLoom]Beautiful piano progression and arrangement. I think the lead melodies for the oboe and bassoon came out nicely. Don't give up on that bassoon![/quote] I'm pretty sure this progression came from messing about on HookTheory's Trends resource. I think it ended up being a progression I lifted from an Allie X song... not sure which one though. And, I [i]might[/i] give the bassoon another shot one day... but for now it's a better instrument than I am a writer, so I guess now I have a musical achievement to strive for.